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	<title>Comments on: Elastic layout &#8211; wrong term?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/</link>
	<description>Kything web interactions</description>
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		<item>
		<title>By: nortypig &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Using Elastic Design</title>
		<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/comment-page-1/#comment-35773</link>
		<dc:creator>nortypig &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Using Elastic Design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:05:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/#comment-35773</guid>
		<description>[...] Campbell&#8217;s Elastic layout - wrong term? gives some good advice on the weakenesses of using an elastic layout. And is he right? Is elastic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Campbell&#8217;s Elastic layout &#8211; wrong term? gives some good advice on the weakenesses of using an elastic layout. And is he right? Is elastic [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: steven clark</title>
		<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/comment-page-1/#comment-35768</link>
		<dc:creator>steven clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/#comment-35768</guid>
		<description>[...] layouts which is a must read for the day (including all the comments if you have time) titled Elastic layout - wrong term? First, he questions the terminology of elastic - is it really elastic or something else? I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] layouts which is a must read for the day (including all the comments if you have time) titled Elastic layout &#8211; wrong term? First, he questions the terminology of elastic &#8211; is it really elastic or something else? I [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steven Clark</title>
		<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/comment-page-1/#comment-35765</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/#comment-35765</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re completely right once again Alistair. At the time ALA printed the article on elastic sizing I stepped back and decided not to go down that path for very much the reasons you explain in this article. Although I have to admit the ALA article set a lot of people off making these elastic layouts.

A funny tale is that I remember my first ever CSS layout adventure where I made an elastic layout almost by accident, naively, and everyone around me said it was wrong. I put my hands into special gloves and stopped touching myself there immediately!

I tend to give IE a fixed width (stuff them) and everyone else gets a percentage based width using max and min widths. It seems to work the best with the least complaints (not sure what my personal site does at present as I&#039;m reworking new templates etc).

No elastic is the wrong name. How about pseudo-elastic design...???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re completely right once again Alistair. At the time ALA printed the article on elastic sizing I stepped back and decided not to go down that path for very much the reasons you explain in this article. Although I have to admit the ALA article set a lot of people off making these elastic layouts.</p>
<p>A funny tale is that I remember my first ever CSS layout adventure where I made an elastic layout almost by accident, naively, and everyone around me said it was wrong. I put my hands into special gloves and stopped touching myself there immediately!</p>
<p>I tend to give IE a fixed width (stuff them) and everyone else gets a percentage based width using max and min widths. It seems to work the best with the least complaints (not sure what my personal site does at present as I&#8217;m reworking new templates etc).</p>
<p>No elastic is the wrong name. How about pseudo-elastic design&#8230;???</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nikk Folts</title>
		<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/comment-page-1/#comment-34030</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikk Folts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/#comment-34030</guid>
		<description>Actually, I take it back, it is not very consistent (and my not even work)... I think there was a caching issue that made it seem like it was working... I&#039;m keeping at it though, so hopefully I&#039;ll find something...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I take it back, it is not very consistent (and my not even work)&#8230; I think there was a caching issue that made it seem like it was working&#8230; I&#8217;m keeping at it though, so hopefully I&#8217;ll find something&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AlastairC</title>
		<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/comment-page-1/#comment-34027</link>
		<dc:creator>AlastairC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/#comment-34027</guid>
		<description>Hi Nikk,

Thanks for that, I&#039;m not sure it would work for a layout div with a width in EM values (due to the font-value in IE not changing with the user&#039;s font-size), but I&#039;ll certainly try it on this site for the pictures!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nikk,</p>
<p>Thanks for that, I&#8217;m not sure it would work for a layout div with a width in EM values (due to the font-value in IE not changing with the user&#8217;s font-size), but I&#8217;ll certainly try it on this site for the pictures!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nikk Folts</title>
		<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/comment-page-1/#comment-34023</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikk Folts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/#comment-34023</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if this is still relevant, but I was just searching on how to solve the max-width problem in IE and nowhere seems to have one for percentages... After reading other pixel based max-width I came up with this:

img {
max-width:98%;
width:expression( 
    this.width &gt; this.parentNode.width ? 
        &quot;98%&quot;:
        &quot;auto&quot; );
}  
seems to work great. hopefully this helps (even if it is a bit late)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if this is still relevant, but I was just searching on how to solve the max-width problem in IE and nowhere seems to have one for percentages&#8230; After reading other pixel based max-width I came up with this:</p>
<p>img {<br />
max-width:98%;<br />
width:expression(<br />
    this.width &gt; this.parentNode.width ?<br />
        &#8220;98%&#8221;:<br />
        &#8220;auto&#8221; );<br />
}<br />
seems to work great. hopefully this helps (even if it is a bit late)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: AlastairC</title>
		<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/comment-page-1/#comment-12538</link>
		<dc:creator>AlastairC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 21:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/#comment-12538</guid>
		<description>Hi Saerona,

Well, this site is fluid and (by my definition) elastic, as are the sites my company does (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nomensa.com/client-portfolio.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Nomensa&#039;s portfolio&lt;/a&gt;).

For font-based, I can&#039;t think of any off hand (that are public), but the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.htmldog.com/articles/elasticdesign/demo/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;alistapart example&lt;/a&gt; should show you what it&#039;s like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Saerona,</p>
<p>Well, this site is fluid and (by my definition) elastic, as are the sites my company does (see <a href="http://www.nomensa.com/client-portfolio.html" rel="nofollow">Nomensa&#8217;s portfolio</a>).</p>
<p>For font-based, I can&#8217;t think of any off hand (that are public), but the <a href="http://www.htmldog.com/articles/elasticdesign/demo/" rel="nofollow">alistapart example</a> should show you what it&#8217;s like.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Saerona</title>
		<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/comment-page-1/#comment-12527</link>
		<dc:creator>Saerona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/#comment-12527</guid>
		<description>Hi, thanks for your useful article and clear definitions about layout kinds. 

I beg you to introduce me to some example of websites with flexible layout &amp; font based layout &amp; elastic layout&amp; fluid+elastic layout.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, thanks for your useful article and clear definitions about layout kinds. </p>
<p>I beg you to introduce me to some example of websites with flexible layout &amp; font based layout &amp; elastic layout&amp; fluid+elastic layout.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AlastairC</title>
		<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/comment-page-1/#comment-11471</link>
		<dc:creator>AlastairC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/#comment-11471</guid>
		<description>&lt;q cite=&quot;#comment-11436&quot;&gt;The page won’t be uncomfortably wide at 1900px for people who like very long lines&lt;/q&gt;

True, but not for the majority, and it isn&#039;t something you can have both ways without a style switcher or something on the user-agent end.

&lt;q cite=&quot;#comment-11436&quot;&gt;The dots per inch (DPI) setting for the monitor could be higher, so any browser which respected this would be using larger-than-default text.&lt;/q&gt; 

I don&#039;t think any of them do, which kind of scuppers that line of thinking. Firefox used to have an option for it that worked to a degree, but that was dropped in 2.0 from what I can see. Basically, without a zoom, 1px is a static measure. In the scenario you are arguing for, you would have a situation (say at 1900 wide) where the text is enlarged but the images are not, which might be fine for text but would images tiny.

In any case, if 1px isn&#039;t static, then the max-width in px would be proportional, as that measure would be bigger. Basically you&#039;d be in the same position as having a zoom, and I don&#039;t think is what you are trying to get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><q cite="#comment-11436">The page won’t be uncomfortably wide at 1900px for people who like very long lines</q></p>
<p>True, but not for the majority, and it isn&#8217;t something you can have both ways without a style switcher or something on the user-agent end.</p>
<p><q cite="#comment-11436">The dots per inch (DPI) setting for the monitor could be higher, so any browser which respected this would be using larger-than-default text.</q> </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think any of them do, which kind of scuppers that line of thinking. Firefox used to have an option for it that worked to a degree, but that was dropped in 2.0 from what I can see. Basically, without a zoom, 1px is a static measure. In the scenario you are arguing for, you would have a situation (say at 1900 wide) where the text is enlarged but the images are not, which might be fine for text but would images tiny.</p>
<p>In any case, if 1px isn&#8217;t static, then the max-width in px would be proportional, as that measure would be bigger. Basically you&#8217;d be in the same position as having a zoom, and I don&#8217;t think is what you are trying to get.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ben 'Cerbera' Millard</title>
		<link>http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/comment-page-1/#comment-11436</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben 'Cerbera' Millard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alastairc.ac/2007/01/elastic-layout-wrong-term/#comment-11436</guid>
		<description>The page won&#039;t be uncomfortably wide at &lt;code&gt;1900px&lt;/code&gt; for people who like very long lines; it would actually be &lt;em&gt;more&lt;/em&gt; comfortable. Also, setting the &lt;code&gt;max-width&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;1050px&lt;/code&gt; means even users who&#039;d like modestly longer lines (such as &lt;code&gt;1280px&lt;/code&gt;) have their preference blocked.

And then there&#039;s the issue of text size. For someone browsing at a larger-than-default text size, &lt;code&gt;1280px&lt;/code&gt; lines (or even &lt;code&gt;1900px&lt;/code&gt; lines) may actually contain fewer characters than &lt;code&gt;1024px&lt;/code&gt; lines at the default text size.

And as we agree, on a high-resolution screen &lt;code&gt;1px&lt;/code&gt; wouldn&#039;t be as physically wide as you might expect. The dots per inch (DPI) setting for the monitor could be higher, so any browser which respected this would be using larger-than-default text. You could have the same number of characters per line in &lt;code&gt;1900px&lt;/code&gt; in this setup as you do at &lt;code&gt;1024px&lt;/code&gt; at default text sizes.

Adding a &lt;code&gt;px&lt;/code&gt; upper limit prevents a website from being resolution independent (aka device independent), something which is becoming ever more important as screens get more diverse.

Am I making any sense at all? :( I&#039;ll wait for the next article...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The page won&#8217;t be uncomfortably wide at <code>1900px</code> for people who like very long lines; it would actually be <em>more</em> comfortable. Also, setting the <code>max-width</code> to <code>1050px</code> means even users who&#8217;d like modestly longer lines (such as <code>1280px</code>) have their preference blocked.</p>
<p>And then there&#8217;s the issue of text size. For someone browsing at a larger-than-default text size, <code>1280px</code> lines (or even <code>1900px</code> lines) may actually contain fewer characters than <code>1024px</code> lines at the default text size.</p>
<p>And as we agree, on a high-resolution screen <code>1px</code> wouldn&#8217;t be as physically wide as you might expect. The dots per inch (DPI) setting for the monitor could be higher, so any browser which respected this would be using larger-than-default text. You could have the same number of characters per line in <code>1900px</code> in this setup as you do at <code>1024px</code> at default text sizes.</p>
<p>Adding a <code>px</code> upper limit prevents a website from being resolution independent (aka device independent), something which is becoming ever more important as screens get more diverse.</p>
<p>Am I making any sense at all? <img src='http://alastairc.ac/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;ll wait for the next article&#8230;</p>
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